Sunday, May 2, 2010

Legal Neanderthals are rising again


I seldom watch the Sunday morning TV news shows, but happened to catch a few minutes of ABC's"This Week" that produced one of the better putdowns of the week. In a panel merry-go-round on the incendiary Arizona immigrant law, George Will criticized Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell, one of the current conservative floor models, for opposing the Arizona law. Will argued that nobody gets into the Virginia Statehouse without an ID - so there! But Al Sharpton promptly felt it necessary to advise the pundit that, unlike Arizona, in Virginia, everybody must show an ID, including white folks. Cool.

While we're in Virginia, we might as well mention the State's Republican Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, who ordered new lapel pins for his staff that shielded a Greek goddess' exposed breast that appears on the original state seal - a new version of John Ashcroft's Boobgate cover-up. Remember the drapery Ashcroft added to the Spirit of Justice statue in the Justice Department's Great Hall? My guess is that breast-beating Cuccinelli changed the seal to avoid any embarrassment if the old seal, which has been around since 1776, visibly excited him.

Is there no end to the number of empty heads that want to offer their spins on illegal immigrants? Among the latest is Congressman Duncan Hunter Jr., California Republican, who wants to deport all American-born children of illegal immigrants. Can you imagine how that would have played with the millions of Italian, Irish and eastern European immigrants who arrived on our shores - one way or another - a century ago? The huddled masses, I believe. Unfortunately, in today's world, the immigrants aren't all baseball players.

A recent issue of Smithsonian magazine has a piece on Neanderthals that quotes Rick Potts, director of the Human Origins Program at the Natural History Museum, which would be worthy of mailing to your favorite outer-conservative: Says Potts: "The Neanderthals were smart. They had brains the same size as Cro-Magnon and were very clever at using local resources. They lacked the ability to expand their thinking and adapt to changing conditions."

You can take it from there...


ReaganFan84 said...

So is anyone on the left going to present an actual substantive critique of Arizona's immigration law??? Because thus far, all I have heard are cries of "racism" and "fascism" to go along with comparisons to Nazi Germany.

Come on Democrats, you are supposed to be the party of intellectuals......

fargo said...

Supply and demand there is a liberal idea.

This law addresses the supply side without addressing the anglo business owners who knowingly hire them and suffer no penalty.

As long as we are having intellectual discourse here please educate us on Ronald Reagans immigration policy.

And while we are at it lets discuss what George W Bushs position was on this and why a Republican president with a congress and senate at his beck and call failed to produce any legislation on this are other than a foolish wall. Its because deep down they knew the solution was worse than the problem.

And yes this new law is racist because it focuses on the problem on one end based on race and ignores the problem based on the race at the other end.

This is a problem...I don't dispute that ....but this law isn't the answer....its just preelection tight wing fear mongering.

Mencken said...

From Reagan's farewell address:

I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here.

fargo said...

This from the WSJ:

This view was apparent in Reagan's public statements well before he became President. In one of his radio addresses, in November 1977, he wondered about what he called "the illegal alien fuss. Are great numbers of our unemployed really victims of the illegal alien invasion, or are those illegal tourists actually doing work our own people won't do? One thing is certain in this hungry world: No regulation or law should be allowed if it results in crops rotting in the fields for lack of harvesters." As a Californian, Reagan understood the role of immigrant labor in agriculture.

Mencken said...

So is anyone on the Right going to present an actual substantive critique of Reagan's immigration comments?

Grumpy Abe said...

Hey, ReaganFan84: I think it's your turn.

ReaganFan84 said...

I am still waiting for someone to address the substance of the immigration law. The fact that Reagan passed amnesty has absolutely nothing to do with what is going on in Arizona.

Fargo says the law focuses on race and that is simply not true. If you read the bill, you will see that racial profiling is specifically prohibited. Law enforcement has to have a legal basis to stop someone and there must be reasonable suspicion (ie. no drivers license) to inquire about their immigration status.

Let's be honest, what we are seeing from the left on this issue is blatant misinformation, from President Obama on down. Throw in some race baiting (Al Sharpton is leading the charge in Arizona)and you have textbook left wing tactics.

fargo said...

Reaganfan...I doubt very seriously that you knew that Reagan was a damn liberal on immigration. His position on this issue became relevant when you joined the conversation with a "ReaganFan84" screen name. Knowing how Reagan felt about immigration it is safe to say he would have been appalled by the actions of the state of Arizona.

Its like this...if I get pulled over tomorrow for speeding in Stow my citizenship will not be called into question. If I get pulled over in Arizona it won't be called into question either. But if my name is Garcia and I get pulled over they can ask for proof that I belong here. (I can't btw) That is where the line is crossed. I realize your credentials as a conservative only require that you read the Second Amendment but there is also a Fourth Amendment (as well as others)you might want to look up sometime.

Now I am back to the supply and demand argument I made earlier that you simply ignored. A supply of illegal immigrants come here because there is a demand for their services on the part of small and large business owners in Arizona. John Boehner blocked Bushs attempt at immigration reform because he was concerned that it would be too punitive on the local business. What is the conservative plan to deal with the immigration question on the demand side? Or is it racist of me to ask?

Red meat time for you invoking the name of Al Sharpton. You overlooked that Governor Rick Perry of Texas has "deep" concerns about this bill. You didn't mention that Mitt Romney, the woudby nominee,is trying hard to keep out of this debate. You didn't mention George Bushs attempts to establish guest worker programs and grant a path to citizenship. You overlooked the Arizona Republic (a conservative newspaper) full front page editorial condeming the law. You forgot to mention that Robert Sarver the owner of the Suns..... a large Republican contributor ...slammed this law. And of course you gloss over Ronald Reagans well documented thoughts that migrant workers were essential to our economy. Instead you have chosen the path of least resisitance in blaming this on Al Sharpton.....because Fox News kind of way...its easy and a lot of uneducated folks can be sold that bullshit without question. For the record I don't like the Reverend either but he isn't the problem here. You also take a shot at Obama who inherited this problem after W punted on it during his 8 years. So why hasn't your party ever dealt with this when they had the power to do so?

I won't argue with you that this isn't a problem...on that we can agree...but this bill makes things worse. If you still don't understand the arguments against this legislation then I would suggest that you are either unable or unwilling to do so.

Mencken said...

Bank Robber Willie Sutton said he robbed banks "because that's where the money is". I imagine most immigrants look at Arizona the same way.
I mean they don't come across for the sunny weather.

And where is that money? Well it's everywhere fruit and vegetables are picked, lawns are mowed, meals are cooked. Anywhere cheap, UNDOCUMENTED labor is needed.

Really a more efficient way to catch illegals rather than checking individual drivers, would be to check the payroll ledgers of the big agri-businesses and farms and see how many of the actual workers are legal.

What? We can't punish business? What? You don't want to pay $17 for a watermelon?

Yep ReaganFan, let's deport them all.... Hire legals at a living wage, pay their 941's, Workers Comp, and some modest benefits and sit back and eat a 4 dollar apple while the agribusinesses, restaurants, and grocery stores tumble into the sea.

But that won't happen will it ReaganFan? Because you're going to tell us a painless way to solve the problem.

ReaganFan84 said...


Go back and read every comment that I have made on this blog. All that I have said regarding immigration is that the Arizona law is legally sound and not discriminatory. That is it. Everything else you have brought up is on a completely different tangent.

No one is denying that Republicans, in addition to Democrats, have shown little interest in enforcing our country’s immigration laws. No one is denying that businesses that hire illegals create the demand that draws people to this country. But because the federal government has completely abdicated their law enforcement duties, Arizona is now forced to step in. They have no other choice because they are the ones dealing with the consequences of the federal government’s inaction.

And yes, I do believe that the left is demagoging this issue to death. All the talk of racism and comparisons to Nazi Germany are part of their never ending campaign to portray conservatives as bigots. The blatant misinformation and inaccuracies in the reporting of this law are a disgrace. President Obama actually claimed that a family walking down the street for ice cream can be stopped and forced to provide papers. In addition to being completely false, that kind of rhetoric is blatant fear mongering in an attempt to rile up part of his political base.

By the way, anyone who gets pulled over by a police officer is required to provide their driver’s license. Providing a license in Arizona completely eliminates reasonable suspicion BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE A LEGAL RESIDENT TO GET A LICENSE. Come on people, read the law and educate yourselves.

Grumpy Abe said...

OK Reagan fan 84: You've had your say -as a Republican lawyer, I do believe - so I can only respond, Why are so many conservatives as well as constitutional lawyers who also have read the law saying that this is a bad law. Do you know more than they do? If so, I am honored that you read this blog.

fargo said...

@ReaganFan 84.....we will see you in court. You talk about this as if its and open and shut case that there is nothing wrong with this law....this from the WSJ this past week:

"The law grants police the power to stop and verify the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being illegal. The measure was criticized Friday by President Barack Obama, who asked the Justice Department to research the law.
It sounded to the Law Blog like we were heading toward a big federalism showdown. So we turned to Karl Manheim of Loyola Law School in Los Angeles and Erwin Chemerinsky of UC Irvine Law to pregame it for us. Their response: the law is DOA.
The Arizona law appears to be “facially unconstitutional,” Manheim said. “States have no power to pass immigration laws because it’s an attribute of foreign affairs. Just as states can’t have their own foreign policies or enter into treaties, they can’t have their own immigration laws either.”

Manheim said the Obama Administration, which is in the midst of trying to pass a federal immigration reform law, would likely rely on private litigants to challenge the law"

So we will see won't we....Bob Barr wrote and op ed piece this week as well describing this law as "constitutionally troubling".He aint no liberal.

As far as being offended by Nazi references let me just hope you are equally offended when Tea Baggers attack your president in a similar manner. Being fair and balanced means calling out your own.

You are certain that you are right on the Arizona scholars, conservative, liberal, libertarian on all sides of the aisle dispute that with you.

Mencken said...

Why hasn't the State of Arizona stepped in and protected their interests in the past? They lose state tax revenue on every undocumented worker. They've always had the authority to prosecute businesses that don't withhold taxes on wages. Again, if they enforced the laws on the books, this new law wouldn't have even been entertained. The new law is just a sloppy work around that again diverts attention away from businesses that break existing laws.